Doc 0000146143

.,. . -: . c . ' ) .,, -.:\-- I • I - \ ~ l ~- , ... , •' ,..._ •"• 'J } ·~:l, i -..J.. . . .. ·g·, ·- .-- .. -. . ..... t- . . - , . , ; ~ .. HEHORANDU~1 FOR THE RECORD o·n~ at~·· . 1.·_ met" \'lith -jtlfa:-at his apartment ,,UIP•~''Wt!ll, to probe h1s re,collections of_t!:e relationships et~een TS a\1 Ft. Detrick in the NKriAOiU project. ~\-las in TSD from 1952 unt.il 1962, s~r:ying as Chief of t.he Division during the last b:o years of that period. ~of OG_C_a~d~?fNwof ORO \'lere also present and parti- . cipated in. the discussions._..,_,...was told that he need not become involved -.... . but he expressed a complete. \'1111 ingness to proyide whatever help he could.. · . ·2. It was explained that Ml<NAotU had been discovered ot·;ly recently as <r result of personal recollections by people not directly involved and that avaflahl.e records .1 eft large gaps in our ability to understand what had· taken place. ·~:!~t! statec£..-~hat the Detrick project had been established and \'las used as a source -C\f . ·specialized technical support in the areas of BW and CW. He agreed that its origins were in the early 1950's. Its establishment \'las a rather natural step in vie~ts caf · •. OSS experience which had involved the development and use of b1o types of lethal :tab~s. and other ~xot!c weapon devices. · . · · : • · · . ·3. ~lllstressed th~t the relation with Detrick was an informal one_rmd was never efined with any precision. He seemed to be unawar~ of the l95?..Hc•morandur: . of Understanding batween the ClA and the Army's Chief Ghemical Officer ·\'1hich apparently was the charter for the association. Furthermore, fie- noted that \·le11 . · defined programs were not established but that ·work pursued lines considered to·L.e intriguing by Ft. Detrick ·or requested by the CIA. Funding \'las not tied to tasking· and he suggested that Agency money was not strictly accounted for in·t(:rr:ls 6f effort expended strictly in our behalf. The arrangement tlOrked because c•f c1ose personal ties beb1een involved personnel at Detrick and the Agency. HKNP.O~ti activities covered a broad spectrum and involved the development of materials useful for l!!!rr.Y different purposes. Insofar as affecting human behavior t1as concerned. interests · ra'ng!d from very temporary minor disablement (such as The image is a digital poster with a black background, featuring a stylized graphic of a bank vault door on the left and large, white, stylized text reading "THE BLACK VAULT" at the top center. Below the title, white text explains that the document was obtained from "The Black Vault," an online database of declassified government documents, and that this particular record is housed in the MKULTRA/Mind Control Collection. The text further states that the collection contains over 20,000 declassified pages from the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) and provides a website address for free download: http://mkultra.theblackvault.com. There are no photographs, handwritten annotations, official stamps, forms, diagrams, tables, redactions, or visual evidence of experimental procedures present on this page. The page is a typed memorandum with handwritten annotations and stamps. There are several redacted areas indicated by black ink obscuring text, particularly in the upper and middle sections of the page. Handwritten marginalia appears in the top right corner, including numbers and symbols, along with a circled stamp-like marking. In the lower right corner, a handwritten number "75-12" is visible, and a small section at the very bottom appears to be a pre-printed form with handwritten entries like "E2 IMP DET" and "CL Signer". The rest of the page consists of densely typed text, indicating it is a record of discussions. The arrangement tlOrked because c•f c1ose personal ties beb1een involved personnel at Detrick and the Agency. HKNP.O~ti activities covered a broad spectrum and involved the development of materials useful for l!!!rr.Y different purposes. Insofar as affecting human behavior t1as concerned. interests · ra'ng!d from very temporary minor disablement (such as inability to deliver a speech well) to more serious and longer incapacitation to death. · 4. According to-.;r1$1ti. some \iell established guidelines for the nt~nar.:m!!nt of work in this area ex1sted. No \>tritten records \-tere kept; verbal cc:nnumcat1ons, close assocations ar.:ong the people involved, and hu:nan continuity kept the pro~:-ao to;;et:-:er. Since there we~e S\'tarrr:s of requests of TSO to provide support of t:eird sorts ;;hich might involve this type of activity, it \'las agreed TSD 'i:ouTd a1ways resp:~c to such requests negatively unless approval by the DD? (i.e., the Deputy Cirectorj had been given prior to the contact. According totilllUM tnis ruic t,;;s ah:ays follo·,;ed. r:orna11y, he \·:as tipped off at the DDP staff r.:eeting that so.-:~cne· l;ad a need for support in this area and then arrangements \'tcrc made to put ... E2 Ut? OET . \ • CL Signer .. , -·. '~ ;- o· - 0 ·~ ,::1 in contact \-lith the Project Offi • in no case he cou1 d . ~:./ r~::;::"!ber had an~--dir;_~tio:, or requests for support c_ome .from outside the .Agency. r 5. From-IJI-ccount, compartmentation was extreme. ~lhen contact \-las -~li!h DDP .ap,rova.1_~. it w~_a done \'tith the Chief of the Chemistry ~_ranchl-. -...... . 'a . in!IJJ. .• -~ IIitday}and, after having set up the contact~ . . . ~lou1d never learn anything more about the affair. .Indeed, according to his he account~ was never apprised in any detail as to the specific type of support involved in specific requests though he \•las a\>tare in general terms as to the types of things involved. Others in TSD - apparently including all but those fe\oJ officers . personally involved in relations with Detrick -- were entirely excluded from any kno\-;1 edge of these matters. · · . 6. In amplifying his statement about the n'umber of requests for support in ·.this area, 'Cll;l-provided a nUlilber of examples. These included suicide agents · for the U-2 pilots, l-pills, means for incapacitating guards or guard dogs, material to anesthetize the inhabitants of a build'ing so as to allo.,.., its entry, material to dissolve the about the n'umber of requests for support in ·.this area, 'Cll;l-provided a nUlilber of examples. These included suicide agents · for the U-2 pilots, l-pills, means for incapacitating guards or guard dogs, material to anesthetize the inhabitants of a build'ing so as to allo.,.., its entry, material to dissolve the Berlin Wall, aphrodisiacs for operational use, etc. He gave the impression of Tsn•s being besieged with \'tild ideas for- tzhich they \'tere to pr·ovicie · the magic potion that would make them work. Few \'Jere seriously cons.idered. · · 7. Wt:en asked directly about any ~ng;.~t]ldge he may bave about specific NKNAm1i s"pport to assassination planning;~~stated that he·had none. He said thett he was of a whole raft of relating to Castro that discussed . e~are sch~~es we~e before and. irr.nediately after the· Bay of Pigs but that he never kne\'1 \'lhich, if any, were taken seriously •. He did indicate, ho\'Iever,· that some requests for support approved by the DDP had· apparently i"volved assassination. tie had no personal involvement in these or-knowledge of them. · 8. When asked about personally targeted harrassment operations; stated that he knew of none and that the use of harrassmcnt agents had breaking up meetings, affecting crowds, etc." ·_. ... ..,... 9. It was clear that -- -- ~iKNAO:U was wrapped up with the drug activities of NKULTRA in . nd-~ He recalled ULTRA as .a fundinCf mechanism that was used to han · research and 4' ~~-.. ~~~ the first because of its sensitivity and second because of::;;= :: rJcerye- H~ .. noted that the drug activity was characterized -- like HKNA0:-11 :-- by a s,-;.-: · compartrnentation policy and an avoidance of creating a written record. tie spoke of \ nearly all the drug work as having been related to-interrogation uses and noted that TSD received numerou~ requests to find aids to the interrogation process. . -~ \ 11. When asked about the keeping of records of f.tKllAO:-ll materials slot·ed in TSD. he stated that it \o:as unlikely that any very elaborate or systematic scheme \'las 2 '!' .• •. .. ,. . I.~!"" @.. !1'·"7.·.' 9. . . ,, ; ~ ~~ . . ~ ~~~loyed. ~~itten.records ~ould ~ga~~~t The policy of avoiding have acted su. n ~;:proach and he doubted that any real records \'lere maint-ained. 'lftft"lidid not fir.d it surprising that unexpected things had been discovered in storage in The document is a typed report with handwritten annotations. There are several large, black redactions obscuring portions of the text, primarily in the middle and bottom sections of the page. Handwritten marginalia appears in the top right corner, including a circled number "509" and some scribbled lines. At the bottom of the page, there is handwritten text in cursive that appears to be correcting or clarifying information from the typed report. No photographs, stamps, forms, diagrams, schematics, organizational charts, or tables are visible. . I.~!"" @.. !1'·"7.·.' 9. . . ,, ; ~ ~~ . . ~ ~~~loyed. ~~itten.records ~ould ~ga~~~t The policy of avoiding have acted su. n ~;:proach and he doubted that any real records \'lere maint-ained. 'lftft"lidid not fir.d it surprising that unexpected things had been discovered in storage in OTS: it \':as the JJature of the business that pecu1 iar things were kept on hand. He related a story of finding six sticks of ancient -- hence particularly dangerous - dynamite stored above the DCI's office in the Central Building. · 12. In conclusion, the intervie\'1 shed little ne\·t light on HKNAO:U but did put the activity and the \·tay it ~ras managed into some\'lhat better perspective. Though some of t:hat he related was surprising, it was believable. The 1nost notable point ~ade was the unusual -- even by Agency standards -- compartmentation and security a:aintained with regard to. the Detrick proj.ect. •. . . .... . • 3 The page contains typed text and handwritten annotations. There are two instances of significant black redaction, one near the top right and another in the middle left of the page, obscuring potentially sensitive information. Handwritten annotations include the numbers "3+8" and "509" near the top, and "75-129" at the bottom right. A page number "3" is also present near the bottom center. The text refers to the policy of avoiding written records, discoveries in storage, and the management of an activity related to the Detrick project, with particular emphasis on compartmentation and security.