Doc 0000146172

The image displays a digital representation of a document's introductory page from "The Black Vault," an online repository of declassified government materials, specifically focusing on the MKULTRA/Mind Control Collection. The left side of the image features a stylized graphic of a bank vault door, suggesting security and hidden information. The right side contains text overlaying a dark background with subtle blue lighting effects. The text explains the document's origin, its housing within the MKULTRA collection, and provides a URL for accessing the entire collection online. There are no photographs, handwritten annotations, official stamps, forms, diagrams, tables, or redactions visible. The primary visual elements are the vault graphic and the descriptive text, which together convey the nature and source of the document. t·lE}:Oi';.:,:;ou~·l FOR THE RECORD SU3jE:CT: Discussions \•lith~-ft&on t·!KNAO,'·II ''1 '{ ' ·' ~---~ 1. n 27 June I met with f~ll!'if~ in my office to discuss ~I!<NJ\0:~1 in the hope:. ~-coUld shed additionalTisht on the tasking of .that project and any op:rati~nal support it pos~i~l.Y may ha:e provid::d. ~~41t.do·ined tht: As'·tKY early 1n 19::.8 and served as Ch1er of the B10logy Branch (jt'YsD from SE~ptember '1961 unti 1 January 1968 \-:hsn he retil·ed. He Has personally deeply i nv(Jl.vcd. "in the . .. NKNAGi'i! project \'lhich \:·~,~~he r~sponsibi~ity of ~is bl·anch. "fs;;i7~;1j~ ~f OGC! of ORO, anc~~of 01S \'Jere also present duru,g these d1scu~s10m 2. At the outset,\jiD(,...spoke very s the cover with which he left in 1968. . . I . .. . . 3. 1 began the interview by giving~a run-do\'ln {JJ'I our· understanding of the Ft. Qetrick project and the image of that effort projected by the limited record of the MKNAO~l file. I pointed out that on~ of tho clearly defined pur~osri~ of. the· project as stated in TSD docu:nents t1as to mo.fntain il stoc:kp·i1c~ of 1eth~\~ agents ancl disseminating systerns in readiness for opcrationa1 usc and that. thi~ ·in association \·lith the current furor about ass~ssinations had c:?.used smoc obvious concern within the Agency about this prog~.am ...w hich htHI not been aYicviatcd by . •· available records. It was our hope that ~,:;~"'t;could fill some ~Jap~ in ·otrr- . ;- kno'ltledge. He was told that whatever he could prov·ide shou1d be ~riven on a ·c:c::-::p1et(~· .· voluntary basis and that he should feel free. not to say anything if he so chose. ~ -'.' 4. responded immediately by sta~ing that it \'las C!Ssentinl \'le understand that while discussions were held rrnd work done on things that might appear questi onab1 e, there \•Jas a clear underst1 ndi ll9 all'long a '11 ·i nvo'l vcd that tJJ[~y would never actually be used operationally bec~use of inherent stops built into the Ager.cy approval system that assu!"'cd final app14oval fOl' usc \·rou1d never be given. Thus, he characterized the \-Jhole HKNAO:U effort as a kind of Never-t:ever-Lancl I involving all sorts of unfettered discussion in isolation from reality. He provide-C ' :- E2 IHP DET CL Signer ... I. 7:J--J)0 .... ! r.'l . ·v full. cssurance that "the Ccr.-:pany" had nothins to 'itorry about: none of the lethal or ir:capacitating products of l·:K~:Mm had ever been The document is a typed memorandum for the record, with several handwritten annotations and what appear to be redactions of text. There are no photographs, stamps, diagrams, or structured data. However, there are handwritten notations at the top right ("42'", "e sep 75", "540") and a number at the bottom right ("75-130"). The majority of the content is text, but there are several horizontal black bars obscuring portions of the text, particularly in the first three numbered paragraphs. These redactions indicate that sensitive information was present in the original document. I involving all sorts of unfettered discussion in isolation from reality. He provide-C ' :- E2 IHP DET CL Signer ... I. 7:J--J)0 .... ! r.'l . ·v full. cssurance that "the Ccr.-:pany" had nothins to 'itorry about: none of the lethal or ir:capacitating products of l·:K~:Mm had ever been made available to anyone for operational use. · 5. Some time was sper.t questioning ~about the l~equiremcnts that shaped the f.IKt~Ao;.n project. He. stated that these had all been generated internally wi'i:hin TSD. He recalled no requirements having been levied by anyone h'ithilt the Agency but not a part of TSD. Later in the interview, however) he noted that he had had discussions t·elevant to this matter \'lith ~.,.,. but \·lith no one else. He recalled no case in which requ1remsnts or direction were received from outside the Agency. It was simply the· view, of TSD that such a capabi1 i ty n~ NAO~II could provide \';as a reasonable one for the Agency to possess. J.ioreover, he noted thD-t the inherent unreliability of biological agents and processes basica1'ty limited.the utility of the NAOi·H product. He pointed out that 'lots of \'/ot•k \-tas done on incc.pacitants, none of \·Jhich could be used because of an inability to f·incf complete assurance that no serious lasting effects might result fr·om their use. He contended at sc:ne length that the \·tork done by Ft. Detrick was l'E!a"i'Jy defensive in nature. B~ applications suitable for clandestina use were developed and tested · only in order to understa.nd the offensive tf.l~eat the Agency heed. Jn some con·. tradiction to this, hm·1ever, he indicated that systems for use against dogs or 1c•r ~ncapacitatir.g hum:>.ns \'/ere actually thought to be needed adcl'iticms to the A9encyt$ capab"i1 ities. In making his case for the defensive concerns of I·IKNhO~il he cited the vulnerability studies undertaken by Ft. Detrick . . 6. -~conTi!"med that th~ responsibilities of the Specia·l Oparat·ion~ Division centered on the davelopment and testing of special applications of BH tteapcns. Our relations \'/ere fairly informal and relied upon 1ia·ison bet\·teen Ft. Detrick g.nd TSD being conducted by a very limited number (several) of designated project offi ccrs. He a 1s o confi r:n~d that vit·t.ually 11f) \·:r'i tten l~econl~ on the project \:lere maintained. Funding \•tas provided by the 1\genc:y simply to support the overall ac~'iv'ity of SCD and appat·ently \·tas not accnunted for on a tasking b.asis; The document is a typed page with handwritten annotations in the top right corner: "421" and a circled "510". There are several black, solid redacted areas scattered throughout the text. The page also contains various faint vertical lines and dots, possibly indicating a scanning artifact or a background design element. At the bottom right, there is a handwritten annotation "75-131". very limited number (several) of designated project offi ccrs. He a 1s o confi r:n~d that vit·t.ually 11f) \·:r'i tten l~econl~ on the project \:lere maintained. Funding \•tas provided by the 1\genc:y simply to support the overall ac~'iv'ity of SCD and appat·ently \·tas not accnunted for on a tasking b.asis; .~averred that the arrangement \·:as based 011 the premise that \•;ork done- in response to special Army requirements \·tou1d be of interest to the A;~ncy. This \-:as particularly true since the P.rmy Specia'l Forces \'/ere SOD's principal customer and the Agency faced many of the same problems as this element of the Army. He left the impression that rather than provide tasking to Ft. Detrick, TSD sim~ly selected developments of interest from an internally generated program. . Hhen. asked abo'Jt maintaining records of material transferred to the Agency, · ·~lid~ responded that very 1 itt1 e such materia 1 vms ·in fact ~riven to TSD and that i~ \·:as unlikely any records were kept. . . .. .. ~ ·;;:~~·~~.. . ~ 7. A considerable a:nount of tir.:e was spent questioning ~-:::~i;iliitlif spec'ificcl1ly about the provision of a£ents or delivery systems d~ve1oped at Ft. Detri.ck to c;:;er~tior.al ele~ents of the Agency. He stated flatly that he had never had ccc2.s1.:·:1 to clo so. tall 'IP\·tas shc~-;n a Ft. Detricl: me:no in the NKW\O;u.-filc covering a conference with the Agency at which he was present which indicated he requested the f',gency be provided Hith 5 staph. enterotoxin ~-~·~oning) tablets by 1 t..;:;ril 1962. He \·:as asked the purpose of his request. ,, _ . · _ , responded by 2 !"" to@f~· sqir.g he \·las glud this specific question \,'JS asked since it er.abled him what was obviously a source of some misunderstanding. It was his practice, he sai~, to levy such requests upon SOD with specific due dates simply to mask any possible future request which might b~ made for real operational purposes. Thus, periodic requests for material. and delivery systems '.-tel·e made so that a purposeful one ~.:ouid not stand out as unusual. He further stated that the enterotoxin develop:n2nt \·ias one the Army had been engaged in \'lhich \'ie thought might be of use to us as a r.:eans for te:-::porarily incapacitating guards. No mention \·:as r.1ade of the obvious ·discrepancy beth'een thi~~ and the contention that our interests \·tere purely defensive in nature~F?·,,;.- \·iastold that one of develop:n2nt \·ias one the Army had been engaged in \'lhich \'ie thought might be of use to us as a r.:eans for te:-::porarily incapacitating guards. No mention \·:as r.1ade of the obvious ·discrepancy beth'een thi~~ and the contention that our interests \·tere purely defensive in nature~F?·,,;.- \·iastold that one of the schemes suggested for use against Castro involved the treatment of the inside of a diving suite Hith Hadura Foot, a non-specific fungal skin disease. P.t the same conference as noted above, considerable attention \'las given to the devc:lopment of 1-licrosporum ~ypset:o Ca fur1,9a1 agent producing severe skin disease) and direction v:as reportedly given by~~~­ that it be prepared in a form suitable for dusting clothes, pi11cMs, etc. He\:::.5 · asked if this direction was related to the.Ca~,tro gal;;bit. He stated cater!or··ically that it \·:as not and Has not related to any identified ope1·ational use of the ?.gent. Rather, it \·las anothsr example of the type of tasking he levied on Ft. Detrick. He claimed he had no knowledge of the diving suit affair or of any other· plot to .incapacitate or assassinate Castro -- o1· anyone else, for that .matter. lie did statf! later that tranttuilizing mc;.terials obtuined else·. . !hm-c: but loaded into syl··ir,ges nt , • · Ft. Detrick (becCI.use of the st~rile facilities tnere) lm<i beE:n ~!"iV(!O to case offic~t·s. · for us~ in .fllll!fihiii"iW&~:tia On no other occnsion ht=;d Ft. llet.r·icl~ mat.er"icJ been provided to .the DDP. 7. The NKULTRP. drug ·\\'Crk came up a nu:nbe1· of t:irr:es. 1\t the cntt.set ·of the discussions~ and repeatedly thl"oughout them, he stated ··- though not ctsked -- tho.t. he had·no kno\'lledge of any unv:itting testing of drugs. Ra.thcrJ a.nima1 tests and ultirr.ate testing with human volunteers had been all that \·las required. Jn thes(! cases \·;ell estab1ish€d test protocols had ha~n used. fie stated that thi$ act:ivit.v had his principal b~cn ccnce~n. 9. ~,~spent some time describin~r Dther c•ctiv"ities <tpparcntly ~ involving Ft. Detrick, though that \•tas not aly1ays clear.. These things ·inc1uded •. ·materials that \·IOu1d cause the rapid corrosion of metal prc:ducts displayed ctt tree(~ :. fairs, POL contaminants that \':ould de:siroy petro'leum ~tocks, l~ea~wnts that \·mu1d cause structural failures in a number of different materials, crop contvminants that : would prevent their passing customs controls (e.g., unacceptably high DDT levels), f · etc. He knew of no actual uses of harrassrnent mater:ials against targeted The page is a typed document with handwritten annotations, consisting of numbered paragraphs detailing interviews or discussions. A circled numerical entry "510" appears in the upper right portion of the document. There are several areas of the document that have been redacted or obscured. The text discusses, among other things, MKULTRA drug work, tranquilizing materials, and various potentially harmful substances. At the bottom of the page, a page number "3" is visible, along with a handwritten numerical annotation "75~132". :. fairs, POL contaminants that \':ould de:siroy petro'leum ~tocks, l~ea~wnts that \·mu1d cause structural failures in a number of different materials, crop contvminants that : would prevent their passing customs controls (e.g., unacceptably high DDT levels), f · etc. He knew of no actual uses of harrassrnent mater:ials against targeted individual~.'· f · as opposed to uses fm· cro~r;d control or meeting disruption. . -· i .. \·1it11~~~\·!ere 10. In sumary, it must be said that the discussions far frc:n satisfying. t,lany of hi.:; responses appeared to be 1 ess than forthco:;rili9 r 3 I. ... .. ~-~~::_:.~-.::~ :~:~~~r~~:.-:::;r~~'==:-:-~~.~ -~·::;.~-..-s.~~~~~~~~=~~::::.::-~:::::-_r;; ~~:.;~;~a.::!:7:.=::~:~~- I .. .r -, -~..... f ~. ~~~ -~---Jf"!') el~e. 1 and w::re not a'lto;ether believable in the 1ig:: information available Since appears to be the sole accessible participant in the MKNAOMI project who h~ involved in it its most provocative period, there seems to be ~a$ ~ee~ly durin~ little that can be now in establishing the extent of provided ~ore do~e s~pport actue1 o;erations during the early 1950's. .. ,i . ' ,_ - ·-·· ··-I ~ . ~ ~ . :~-. :- .4 7S-t33 ... • ' ... i This page contains typed text and several handwritten annotations. In the upper right corner, there is a circled handwritten number "510" and to its left, "72.". There are also two dark, scribbled redactions in the upper and central portions of the document, obscuring portions of text. A number "4" is visible in the lower central portion of the page, and in the lower right corner, handwritten numbers "75-133" are present. No photographs, forms, diagrams, tables or experimental procedures are visible.