Doc 0000146372

TO DATE: 2·3 Ycbruary 1952 Vin J'ROM .... riter had an extended his office in ,., ·; a.nd examin~tion lasted from approxima tel:r 10:3 0 d on through the Cont.~ct Era.nch but introductions ~s in th~ . nterview were regarded as unr.ecessary. No difficulties were enc in this matter. ... .. \ . , t.,: r.. ~, f; .•• f~··· I . is extremely active, moves and ~: . ....... 1 1ntelligcnt, and throu~hout the lon~ r . amiable, ~ mind t~1at4l[lll meanin~ of secrecy, the . Set out belo~ are a ln su-',.., - the. detall3 of stanc~, ~.,;: Concernins the r;cneral pr::>ble:n o.f the so-called "truth seru11s '', what are your vie;.;s as. _to our using these tech niques? A: I consid-=-r th;t w~ are at w;;.r at the prt:scnt t_imc <1.nd i-lP. must assume that the other side is using drugs, coercion, torture, hypnosis, and all other related elements for tlu:!ir purpo~~0. I think we should b~ willinr~ to tnke ch~n·.;e~; to r~ain our· end:;. l de.• TJ<JL b(·.l..i.evr! .it. ;.1ould 1·•? too darn:Jgi.ng if Lhey found we were using drup or other methods of gaining information. Certainly, the Soviets .. •• • r~ll':!'J~ thnl ,;n. ·,;ill tr? the 3:>m<o J'l•oLh.)d::; ~-:~,..,y ~re usin~ :Jnd, .if;..;'? dcn 1t, ;.;c w'J\lld r·e foolish. i:. 1.hjn:-: :.t <:.!3- •'' r s~n\..i;'ll Ll1;:~t :;our Ar:,cncy 'cc nref'-3t""?d to 'lSC L1~:>r.> :-:"."!~.!:oris. I think you should support lonr:-r;:;nr,-= exrerir~.':!r.~ ..- .Lior. anci you CC'rt<~inly should 'rr: pr~?.nnr~-; to at tnck pro\~l~m:; >Ti t.h the br.::;L ro::;:;it-lo inforPlaLion nnci techniques that :;cu havP. '•· at h.gnd inun<!!cliately. 1.( -~.· . ~: Do you hav~ an intcres t in th<? :;id7.cnL:;- c:;::;e or related ones nnci do you have any ide~:; as to ho;.; Lhese thinf;:s • :are produced? A: '[es. If you ;.;ill not~ .i.n ~~Y pc::o~r ( p1p9r is <tt. t.aciled), I have- ~i vcn considcrabl·:? thcur::ht to the Sovie L tri::.ls. l·iilile I do not telie·.-e :m::one kno·..;s s~ecifically :-,c..; these thinss are br-:>ur,ilt about, I think the:; are br:u;_;ht.. al:o·.1 t possil~ly t:: tort.ur~, duress, drur;s, h:.-;:n:os:.s, Jnd other rel~tsd methods such as exhaustion, fat~~~e, ~nd diet.a:r:r ~eficier.ci£?s. In adc]iti.on, as· ~·ou ~-r-.i-·;., ~-:1e • • ::io' ....i ets do not hesitate to tetk-= "'lone ti:r~~ ':-O'Cunditi-;n • their ~oject3. F:rctoably yo•1 \;ill nev~r f1;'1'!e t.o r~::c.rt to this. ,\3 I see it, your ;nain int~rest ·.;culd br.; in The visual elements on this page consist of a dark background, a stylized graphic of a vault door on the left side, and white text on the right side. The text describes the source of the document as "The Black Vault," an online database of declassified government documents, specifically mentioning the MKULTRA/Mind Control Collection. The text also states that the collection contains over 20,000 pages declassified by the CIA and provides a URL for online access. There are no photographs, handwritten annotations, official stamps, forms, diagrams, tables, redactions, or visual evidence of experimental procedures apparent on this page. The document is a memorandum with a heading indicating "Office Memorandum" and "UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT". It contains typed text that is partially obscured by heavy black redactions across multiple lines, particularly in the subject line and in numbered sections detailing an interview. There are also handwritten annotations, some of which are circled letters "C" to the left of several paragraphs, and a handwritten numerical annotation "A/B,5 240/4" at the top right. A date of "28 February 1952" is visible. The overall appearance suggests a formal government document with sensitive information that has been subject to declassification procedures involving redaction. rel~tsd methods such as exhaustion, fat~~~e, ~nd diet.a:r:r ~eficier.ci£?s. In adc]iti.on, as· ~·ou ~-r-.i-·;., ~-:1e • • ::io' ....i ets do not hesitate to tetk-= "'lone ti:r~~ ':-O'Cunditi-;n • their ~oject3. F:rctoably yo•1 \;ill nev~r f1;'1'!e t.o r~::c.rt to this. ,\3 I see it, your ;nain int~rest ·.;culd br.; in obtai:1i.n~ in!O!':'ia't.ion from •m;.;illing peC·iJle anc3, if po:::~ible, preven'tin:.; yom· pco~le from t;iYing .. infc:r:;,a- • tion if tak:m by the other sid€. •• • . ,, 1"Ju iEJve ·. . ;~rk.::d >-:il.h i 11? so-c;l~ed "truth ser~:;";s" ~. will you com~ent on the~? A: !'~r-1:.~ seru."':"ls" are not SF3r"..J.T1~> in any sr:n3e of t~~(; \-:',:"rd. 1 hey are dnp cr ch-::::1icaJ..s <~r.d tho.y do nst al;.;a~rs pro duce the tr·uth. T b~lieve :,~our /~;;enc;r sho'J.ld t.:3e t::i.3 l'iethcd to g~t information. D.:::rrj nc; the c;;,ic;:;;:;o-L.:-r;-e third-dcGr8e, ~hich I kno;.; you ~cn•t use, th~:re i3 no way of extractin~ infcr::1ation succsssf~lly from a r~­ calci tr<>nt and stul:born wi tnes,;;_. 'lhere m<\'l be oli1e:-o m~thods but I do not know of ar~ results along thAse lines such as sound, shock, etc. ;:oTF: ..., of rarallcl CO\II'3~ 1 . att;:oched docu:ncnt . . . . ... ,,, A: T' fl':'r!JOI1='1ll:,·' h<\VO done ,)l;;;o:; t ;,j l or ::-,:, ..... ork ·..;:i.th ::JCCL'Ol:tnline ~:3 you will noV~ fron ;11:.' pap'?.l", alt.housh I do h<I\'C som~ knowlcdr~c of Lh·:- 1'.1rbi t.urat..e dru:;s. llo.•~-:C!r, if 1 ..;n.re .:~Ltacklnr; a :~.i.v'C!n C:'\Se at the pre-.: sent t.ir.ie ancl if a good <Hit:?S L!H? t.l:; t ••ere available, I. would try t.h~ harb.i turnt.e rlnu;~, a111:,·tal or pcnto th~l, in pref~rence to scopolamine. I think they -..;ould b~ more effective. I ha'V'e r~;.-.d Dr. Ja.rn,s il. 1·11\TTI!~:,.;s' paper and he had arnazinr; results. His re ~ults WAre hetter than mine since he claims 100~. •.I :un dubious of such hie;h results with rec"lcitrant sul-jects. I do not kno·. . ; of any ";.;onder" drur;s or "new" drugs and it is my belief that you should stick to something that you knew is at lenst p.:n:'..,ir.l ly ~ueccs:f:..J.l befcr~ try·inG experi:ncntal m~thods that ma:l not work. . ·.l: h'ha t teclmiq.ue have you used to obtain infor:n.1,. ,ti on? •• /,: I ::11;ain refer j'O'l to my pap~r. i\:; I rn'O:IJticned :J.bo·:~, I '..l3·~d scc-pol~mine in :\lrnost ;;ll my c.'l.s'=s ,1;1 'cch nu:·J L,~r=u abo'..l'i:· fcr":,y, ;}tJd I -..ould s=l:,r the \.;ork :-1a2 a\."·.)•.lt sa; succ~ssf~l. I, The page appears to be a typed document, possibly a response to a set of questions given the "Q:" and "A:" formatting. There are several handwritten annotations on the page. A large, dark "C" is circled on the left side of the page. There is also a handwritten note that says "NOTE:" followed by some scribbled lines and then more typed text. Additionally, there is a handwritten "-2-" towards the bottom, indicating it's likely a multi-page document. Several sections of text appear to be redacted or heavily obscured by dark ink, particularly in the top right and bottom sections of the page. No photographs, diagrams, or forms are visible. ·.l: h'ha t teclmiq.ue have you used to obtain infor:n.1,. ,ti on? •• /,: I ::11;ain refer j'O'l to my pap~r. i\:; I rn'O:IJticned :J.bo·:~, I '..l3·~d scc-pol~mine in :\lrnost ;;ll my c.'l.s'=s ,1;1 'cch nu:·J L,~r=u abo'..l'i:· fcr":,y, ;}tJd I -..ould s=l:,r the \.;ork :-1a2 a\."·.)•.lt sa; succ~ssf~l. I, personallj, inj~cted th!.SCQ~0~3- l•li:1e 3.:'ter makinr.; it "'y::;r;lf. I did not. 11.>~ •t.•tu1·.., but I'Ftde .111 inC.:.ivi.dual sur.cut,1ne')'l3 inj~ctior.•'?.CJ.c:l time. (Se~ details in attached p~p~r ~nd lat~r S"v' 3.t l n ,;. · l ~ 1 " ... ' ... n .. .. . . , . ~ ... , • ) A: I. kn(y,.; no':.hin~: nhou t h:t-pno.si:; p•"!r::.:nnrill;t ::;nd h"lve In sone of my ea"l.'/ 8X;>erl·ncnts ·,:iti1 !:.: havt! he did n·.)L [. ave At that ti .e;..; no Lhin,c; ~b011t h;{pnosis. I've hee1rd • teing us~d .:tn~ :: ~ .: . .. think it h<lS !TICrit. I r:·eli~v·; "that. =1. person under )• ~ hyrmotic control •1onld give nn1ci1 m·:)r'3 :J.cr;urat~ j_n form~tion than n per3on under U1e influence of a drug. Certainly it sh~1ld he Le~ted and tri~d a1~ u~ed if found Lo be successful. ·~!= i!:w~ ~·ou '!'-'er u~e<l el·~ctro:>hock e>l' :Jny ot:1~r :5h1i lar t:rpe instrument nlong th-=:>~ lines? -3- cr A: D'!f'lnitl"!lJ not., :Jnd I h""tV·~ I)•) :i.nrc:J'·;.,l.]on nr~::':lil'.~ tr:,•Lnr; ':'l··~troroho-:i( i~1 +.!1i·~ cor.:~t~c:ian. ('.:J:· t'il7' thcr lnforn1 t.lon along th"!::i~ J.inc~~ :1:~<:> l1. L~1·.) .;.: ·liav·~ you "!V'~l' used drur;s or oth'::!i.' t(!chni~·~·~:3 :..::>ing in t,crpt·eters 7 A: r!o, t'lut I lost, o!F! case tiHL I c"l.n cl·~:;r1:,· t·ec,,:l for failure to h:1 ve an int~rpretcr pr~f.i'.!n t.. 'l: l.>o yo•1 have or have you ever i1e:'lrc.l of <iny .'l.r.i vancet:l technical me~ns or instrw::ten ts that could he u3cd for obtaini_ng infor.:1s. tion? .. \: iJo. I 't~liev·~ that drup; ar'? th·: b·~:;t '::let. Yo·-1 should ch~ck all the idea:;, of course. .... . ' D0 'JO'l care to co011·18n L on the thirci-d-=,;r<.?~? · -:;.1 • • .,.;,~rc far1ili"tr t-<ith p0l.ic·~ t.hiru-der:re~ tnethor:·; ln ::·ou:::- poli~e •..-ork ::3.:3 a source of info:nr:e1tion -- i:; it of v.qlue ! A: .~ thir:i dr.;~ree, if c::trrj-=·1 fiJr •:mn;J;:n,·. .; iJl r.:·-,d~•c~ t1 C~nr,,.,sion 0'" inror·tl'lt-ion 1'l'~ -.... .. .,r,-'1 1 ;J.r:·~-,• t.: .. , .. (.. 1,. '"' - ,;:) .. ..... 1 , .J • l 1 4 I ' l t l , • .,.I.. • , --, • ~ thir:i dr.;~ree, if c::trrj-=·1 fiJr •:mn;J;:n,·. .; iJl r.:·-,d~•c~ t1 C~nr,,.,sion 0'" inror·tl'lt-ion 1'l'~ -.... .. .,r,-'1 1 ;J.r:·~-,• t.: .. , .. (.. 1,. '"' - ,;:) .. ..... 1 , .J • l 1 4 I ' l t l , • .,.I.. • , --, • ~ .-,: ~.;on't b~ ·.;orth =.:,~rt.lli!1G· A n·~rs8n :r;'..ll con_·~e='-; t.o anythi.m; to e::c;;.p':l tori~·Ire if c:;t·r·i~d -Jut, l:>n!; en,n?,..•· Our Governr:~:1L should not use these M~tho~b. So;·..; bet tcr tn'~t!1oti. can be found. '~!: In your toxicolo::;ic:tl .=tnd crimin.J.l ex.-,er::..enc·.~s, h.r;':! :,·ou e·:er r•1n :=tcro~n a ";.;ond0r'' dt·~~::: 'Jr ;_!'l:·o:-:1~ •.. : ~''' cl3.im3 to have found a 11wonder11 drug for our t:-pe .:;:: [· !·· u:;c'? f i" A: tlo. I doubt if t.iH~Y exist. I.:couH if the :5o•.r:.et:; I. have :my "wond·~r'' druf~3. I have heard o:' experi ,~. mental u:;e of li ttl~-kno;m c.lru,~s, L'ut I <l!'ll certain 1... ~-re ar·~ fallliliar wlth anythinG U1e:r !1a·.re. 'I'bere :>.r~ Y" lots of druss th.:tt Hill produce h."lllucinalior.:;, ~ mental disturbnnccs, etc., buL th~y will not ~iv~ ~. :·011 8.CCllJ":Jl."!, u:;eful inf.jr:n'ltion. l·ie:;c."ll, J·~n:'.'!­ l· drin'?, o;)·i.'H1, ila~h·~!:'~l1, .::tlcol1~1l, ~nd nurt'.'l'•:Jtl-; olho;;-·.; t :.;rill uo'3•~t, th·~ :rtinrl, but .T do not, heliev·~ th~;r i;.i.ll serve your purpo:;;e. I hav·~ nc'ler ~'"lard of l;,·serr;,.i.c f . acids bein~ u~'!d in tiJi:; connectinn, b1t tlv~y ~il2. a: feet the :n.ind -- '.4h•?ther th~y can be d~Nel<::-ri~C. ~. • ;f or your + or. u:;c, I canna t s;.y. '1~1 " are . d an- ! ~YP~ 1'~;,- .. .· t;erou:;, generally speakin~. ;J ,. i •.. . ~. ~: Do you •wer us~ th~ poly<!,r;Jph in your work? Do you have any :>p~c.i.:tl information rP.l:JLi.ve this deY.lr:~ or simi.l~r rl~vic~s or :m,;r ne<; d·~v:i.ce:; .::long poly Graph lines 7 y v prop~rly I do not:. kn')rr of .qny mlv poly- ~raph dP.vice:; or any new a t:.tachments. I h:w':! heard th-3. t som~ wo-r>k -iPsI IbJ('i'nIrI. done alon~ l.in·"!s of • "tttis. ki_nd .qt --- I _.,....--.·~ ,· -.. 'C . _ ......... ·-~ ._, - ',•Jould you n.:tr'l.~ sorne incii viduals who mir;ht be h~lp­ ful in onr work? ,\: I tl0!1iev~ you shO'lld consnl._... He i~· <=t • clos<:'! friend of Hun~ and if he could ·not r:ive~o11 • • dir':!ct inforrna t:.ion, hP- would know indi vidu::tls who hav~ done •,Jork alone your lim:J. He is reli-3-l:le. . The page is a typewritten document, likely interview or survey responses, with some handwritten annotations. The main content consists of questions and answers, indicating a formal inquiry. There are several instances of redacting or blacking out text, particularly near the bottom of the page and within the answers, suggesting sensitive or personal information has been obscured. Additionally, there's a handwritten annotation in the bottom left corner, "B/6", which could indicate a page number or a code. The document appears to be part of a larger collection, as indicated by the page number "-3-" at the bottom. viduals who mir;ht be h~lp­ ful in onr work? ,\: I tl0!1iev~ you shO'lld consnl._... He i~· <=t • clos<:'! friend of Hun~ and if he could ·not r:ive~o11 • • dir':!ct inforrna t:.ion, hP- would know indi vidu::tls who hav~ done •,Jork alone your lim:J. He is reli-3-l:le. . t to p.r ocure tlln ser•Tice;; F'rol't 'N'h.i.t.::.: kn•J'·;.~;'Jut B/~,.. hirn, • and extrcMel:,· inter~.cd in your type of Hork. should be valuable. I b~­ lieve he is in but I do not kno;.; -...-here. IIBJ . • with I . or- gan~zation ~~ f a.111iliar ni th should see him and you can get quite~~~ tape recordings fro~ .. . --~-·.·~ .... _ .. ~ ~~~•;. .,• ··~ •. ';.'i~ . - .:_. !-,.~~~ ~1.~~~~ r ha::> a very lar~A ··rri vate practice. lie will handl~ a ca~e unles3 he i1 intArcstcd. II~ woulJ knovz about <tll tY?es of dru~s, pro~ably hypnotism, ~nd certninly ~ould knoN ahout el-:=!ctro3hock or if l1~ didn't, he would lmo•• tht?. best J'llan for yo•i to sec. ll':! do~::; lt;:no·. ., . ab'ont dru?;:; Clnd crlmin.:tl wor~~ ;Jnd I aJ:t cert.1in that if h'3 knew of your int~r~st he would very gladly co-operate with you. .. . . •• -5- . ..•. _ .....~.. · ··· ,· ·- .·.. . . __.. ._. ....... _ _. __ ____ ..,_,.._._ .......... .. __ .. ,_., -· -·--·-·_. ..... _____ . -'~-· -=·----~-;. _~ ····-""-~ 13/~- ~·.-• .... -• I • • . • · ... - was should h;rre ~m~ interesting ormat-ion (Already requested by this office.) r · · - el~, is an an'3:::thee-ist. co-operative he would speak with ~ great deal oi' authority. :::e first nar'-:(! I for!~~t, ·.. ;ilor:·, ar•i hr,:•• al ~n:,:: ·.vi Li1 of til• h~.~\:. ar. .. .::t.i,·..:tist.s in He is an inLelli~~nt m~n ~nd I am certain co-operate. .. . c._ n Q: Do you know A: I know the natn~ onl:r, h~ i3 a close workin~ relationship witi r .. Do you kn --· -.!' -· A: Ho. I have heard of him only. ,. -6- ,._ 41 ... , ...... ... .. [ i~ould you cnr~ to eiv•.! mt! ::in:.- :i.ld.:i.tion:Jl infor i mAtion on your use of scopolamin~? I ~ A: I will r~fer yo•.1 to my papP.r (at.,t~ci1~d). ,\s I ~ mf!'!ntioned, I h~lieve I was 50.i> ~:ucce;;s ful on veri i fiable infonnation. The document is a typed page of a report or transcript, with text organized into questions and answers. There are no photographs, diagrams, stamps, or filled-in forms visible. Some parts of the document have been redacted, which appear as blacked-out sections, particularly obscuring some of the text at the top of the page and in the bottom right corner with "4-1". There are also small, scattered black dots that might indicate where original redactions were made or are simply artifacts of the scanning process. The page's content primarily consists of printed text, suggesting it is part of a narrative document rather than a visual record of experiments. The image is a black and white, typed document with handwritten annotations and redactions. The document appears to be a transcript of a question and answer session, with questions marked by "Q:" and answers by "A:". There are prominent handwritten markings in the margins, consisting of the letters "B/6" repeated multiple times, along with a "C B" marking. Significant portions of the text are obscured by black redaction marks, particularly in the answers to the questions. Some sections of the text are partially visible despite the redactions. At the bottom right of the page, there is a handwritten "-5-" indicating the page number. The overall visual impression is of a redacted document with handwritten notes indicating some form of internal categorization or review. 41 ... , ...... ... .. [ i~ould you cnr~ to eiv•.! mt! ::in:.- :i.ld.:i.tion:Jl infor i mAtion on your use of scopolamin~? I ~ A: I will r~fer yo•.1 to my papP.r (at.,t~ci1~d). ,\s I ~ mf!'!ntioned, I h~lieve I was 50.i> ~:ucce;;s ful on veri i fiable infonnation. In us in~ sco!'olaminP., you ;nus t I nevcr.fram~ a question so that the ans;.r~r Sllt;ge=>t!3 I I itself. f\l'!cause of an individual's re.:1ction under ! scopolamine, he is very liable to .:1 qn':!;;ti-:>n r~p<2at if the question su~gest3 the an!;wer. Scopolamine .r knoiol shortens the memory for recent. cv~nts. ;·ih~n !. your ~ubj~ct is under scopolamine and reaches the point of "picking thinr;:s out of tit~ air" or "dustin(! im.::.~.gln.'lry specks of!' his clot.hin~" or "brushin~; ima ginary hugs off him~elf'', you hav~ r'3aclv;!d, in rjen the proper point of In addition, ~ral, qu~;;tioning. at this point, I have found that the subject's :ainu will become blank as far as memory is conc~rned of thP. questions ked wh!!n effects of the dr;Jg '..JeJ.r a~ th~ • off. ', ~ • After a considerable number of cxDeriment;).l us~s of scopol:?Jlline, I cameto th!=! decision that t-est results C~l"l~ ;.;hen I started injectin; 1/100 of a grain and then followed it at interval3 of about t~~ntv min~t9s by 1/200 of a grain. I closely follo'-' tl:411 p~.,Ise and w;1tch tho; flushed C()ndi tion of th~ inch vid~nl' s face. at. all times. I personally inj-?.cted the scor>-:>la;TJ.ine each tim~. Another hint, you sllould alway;;; have ;1n individual 0:1 '..Jhom you are goinG to use scopolamine or any ot:1~r dru.~; empty his bladder before th~ t.P.sts. c~rtainly tllis is tru~ in scopolamin~. i':eeo yo•Jr cpestions short and frame yo•lr questions s:J tint the:,· will rc q~lir-: short ans,•ers. Lone; questions th:~ t. will re(]uire lon;; answers may produce ra~t'!ilinr:;. As a m3.tter o~ fact, if a long answer is I-:zcp.ired, an incii vidual scopolamine will often forr,et what he w:1s und~r t;).lking about in the first place and the answer will be usel!'.:!ss. H~re are four i t~ms that I thlnk /O.l sh•)..llcl al-...:ty:> kno~.; wh~n using scopolarn.i.n~ or prohahly other dru~s: 1) Your subject should he in good physical condition, if possible. -7- ·---·· -- .. __ .. ........ - .. --.. --------·-·-.......r..-...----- :. ~:. 1 ;, ·. ,· 2) Y•JU sh::rJld -- al•ra,:;s us~ J"~n.ll dos~f~~.'3 n . t . sh•)..llcl al-...:ty:> kno~.; wh~n using scopolarn.i.n~ or prohahly other dru~s: 1) Your subject should he in good physical condition, if possible. -7- ·---·· -- .. __ .. ........ - .. --.. --------·-·-.......r..-...----- :. ~:. 1 ;, ·. ,· 2) Y•JU sh::rJld -- al•ra,:;s us~ J"~n.ll dos~f~~.'3 n . t . K all tim~s V;lce your tillln., til·''l f_:h ~ ..; v m:ty tal<<:! hours. Tne result:; fTl.'lj' b~ ·::!et t'=!~ ... i),.. ,. :;· ... J) Partic~tl:u·ly for sco1.10l<J;:1in~, :,·o11 should 1 '.I . . . ' . use fresh solution:> onl:;. Th~ po~•dcr, l\~ scopol:;r.U.n':! hydro-i:':rornic\1! sllou'Ld not te "i,:_, mix:-=d in ad•r:mce ·.. zith Lhe w:<ter 011:-: 1 re . ~·! li~ve that ·.;hen you obtain Lhis p·:r..:der, :rou should Make cert3.in tiH t it i:.; fr<J3h u.nd n~v'Elr use it if it has bee e up for 2h hour:;. I always wrote t rc- questad fresh po~•der fro::i thc:n and I al ·,:a:.rs mad'=! up my solutions inu":'lediatel:r befor~ u:;in~ th~rn. h) You should watr.h the indh·idud 13 bloo:i ~res!3ure car~fully. I •,;o•1ld n?t, und'!: ;,e- any cirC\L11S'ca•Jces, r.ivc scopolof.rrtfne an.7• · indiv1dual h~·,•in:; hi~;h-blood pre:;~ure ;;.:1- • l~ss it did not matter .. rro111 :;our point of vi'3W ar.d unde-r: ~.::nditi!; c•1.1' prat-1~::'\ as :;·cu no;• <.io, do you c<:.re t.o cor:li:lent on t,;1e• , ;rot l~:-:1 of re3e~rch in ge~eral? • .. A: I think your Agency should support caref11Jl;; COij~n;ll.,d, lcng-ranr;'? resP.nrch in drugs, ch'=!r!ic-'lls, et.c. ::;: Lh.Lnk lonr;-ran~:e research, properly conducted, is es~eliti.J2. and it sllc"tld cover ell possitlc field:; includ.i n~ ch0:'1i cals, electronic;:;, sound, ~tc. PM.rticul:::rJy, I thL-.k your lonr:-ran;::c rcse<1rch ::;ho11lc: ·,;crY C'2l'"'i'-.Jll·; r~- stu6}· th:- old~r ?nd HC'll-knc·l·:n riru~;s r.:1r:i1 ~;~~;;:n·- bi tur::~.tes. '.,_\lite oft~n rese'lrchcrs o·;erlod: vi t.;;.l in farrnn Lion in R Sf'!<Jrch for sor:1~'-LlJi.nr; II fll:~\.;11 • :::::-~·rcct:ct:; of old and kno·-m chemic.p.ls Hil}. qui+.e of ten be w:-1;; t. ;.;e are looking for. I do not feel th:1t L:.J,ere is a sooci chan~" of turninr:: up n "wondt."r" drur;, l-ut t'?\'eJ·y eifort should be made to find ne\• and ad·;uncecl rnethocl::;. .. ·~ A~ far ;J.S short-r;'lnt:_;e work or immcd.in Le pr·olJlCI i.'; ar~ ccnr.erned, as I h:we mentio11t.Jd to you l:cfon•, you . i • . • .\ . t '. , =-ho11l'J .:; L t ::d: .,_.i u, Lhe rnet!HHl:~ ~.T(~'l C·1.r1 w.:~ h~:; l.. I ~ · ~ ' ~ ·. would The document is a typed report with handwritten annotations. The annotations, primarily in red ink and what appears to be blue ink, are in the margins, marking sections of text. There are also several instances of heavily redacted text, appearing as black bars, obscuring names, dates, and specific details throughout the document. The overall appearance suggests a review or annotation process on a declassified government document. ;J.S short-r;'lnt:_;e work or immcd.in Le pr·olJlCI i.'; ar~ ccnr.erned, as I h:we mentio11t.Jd to you l:cfon•, you . i • . • .\ . t '. , =-ho11l'J .:; L t ::d: .,_.i u, Lhe rnet!HHl:~ ~.T(~'l C·1.r1 w.:~ h~:; l.. I ~ · ~ ' ~ ·. would u~;e the l'arbilurnt.e dru1_~s ilv~msel·;es ul· l..he pre sent tiiT:e. There may be others th:=d, are usef11l, htt I have not heard of them. It '"'ould he crinJin;<l t.::; . . . r~: Concerninr; Lhi:J di~:cu~:~ion E:~ncz·a.J.ly, have you eny SUGGestions to make? t\ : <1 trip to iiiiM•-'· \.,'OU ld 1~ trip int.~ llig~~nt anythin~ RG~inst him, but I b'ZliE•Te profi tal-l~ or e.d·.-isable .for you to interview him. '1-ly reasons are based on ·.what I know of the man personally. .., ... tlOTt.: ·.·.·~ • • • i. r I • ' er ~,. a rnunl:e:r published. althoug GenerAl int~rest, contained nothing of p·ent value from \ r view. Exactly' ·.1ily I ;. ...., recommends agains to the wri tE·r, but t op.i.nion iz eiv':!n to con.sid 'era.ble cx;,c~erfl:tion ond nie;ht not t:e a.dverse to publicity.' ~he SlJhject of consultant ~E:-rvice:; to . undoubtedly, wo-1"if' re- c;.. .. quested, but, bas on s made in the intervie~; ,., is at present extremely bus~·· The que:;Llon of 1·/hnt,he~ _ _· would he valuatle for training any of Ollr people wo,lld appenr to t:~ ans·.,;ered in th<:: negative, since he has work~d rr.ainly ;.til:.i1 :::;copol;'lJ:~ine and llis information has been, in the opinicn of the i·iri tcr, pretty Hell covered. . . '·· . \ .•. ' I ~ .., , . . •. ' C.) t:' \ ~;-·:* ** ~ /" ~." ,\s mentioned arove, thrcuP.hout:. the lor,;; inte~·vie·.: l..,.....;'. ...W <l~ ~xtr~mi'!ly co-upere1.ti ,_.'?. and ;:;!"lo·,;,-;d o r.;rr;; l intC'l'est ~n tn':! rnn.t.t~rs under discns;,:i.cn. He f,;'lVe a number of doc;::lll'!nt::; Lo t:.e ;;rit~r ;.·hich ·.-ill t-e photo=-tat.ed and incorporatr;rJ in our files. lie p~=?r:>;j_ ~.t.ed ill~ writer to ~x2mine his entire lir·r;;ry ar:d r.crscnal files reG<Jrcir.~ tlrls sutject ~1d appeared to b~ at all times very frnnk an~ horicst in Ji ~~;~~~ 0;h:e:~!~~r i~o~~;u~~~k t~~ci i~~e~;i~~e r~p~~~~~ -~;~~- /'_- '-- ~can be totally trusted. . - - . .- ; - •. . J , • ~- • • l • a • '• • The document is a typed page with some handwritten annotations and smudges. There are no photographs, forms, diagrams, or organizational charts. There are no official stamps visible, but there are several redacted portions of the text, particularly on the right side of the page. The redacted content appears to obscure entire phrases or sentences, suggesting sensitive information. There is a handwritten number "-7-" near the bottom center, indicating a page number. The overall appearance is that of a declassified report, with the redactions serving to maintain secrecy. The page is primarily text-heavy, made up of numbered points and a question-and-answer format. There are no photographs, official stamps, forms, diagrams, or tables. The most prominent visual element of non-textual content is a handwritten annotation on the left side of the page, reading "H-B/3", which appears to be a label or identifier. There are also a few small, dark circular marks scattered on the page, the purpose of which is unclear. Some sections of the text are obscured by large, dark redactions. an~ horicst in Ji ~~;~~~ 0;h:e:~!~~r i~o~~;u~~~k t~~ci i~~e~;i~~e r~p~~~~~ -~;~~- /'_- '-- ~can be totally trusted. . - - . .- ; - •. . J , • ~- • • l • a • '• • The page contains typed text with handwritten annotations and significant redactions. Two handwritten annotations, "H-B/6" and "B/6", are present on the left side of the page. There are large, black redacted areas obscuring much of the content, particularly in the center and right portions of the document. The redacted areas are a prominent visual feature, indicating sensitive information has been removed. The typed text includes questions and answers relating to a discussion and notes. A page number "-9-" is visible at the bottom. This declassified CIA document page is primarily text-based, with several black ink markings and handwritten annotations. There are two illegible handwritten annotations or stamps at the top of the page, one of which appears to be a stylized "C". A large, dark, and heavily redacted section obscures text towards the bottom right of the page. Another redacted block exists in the upper right quadrant of the page. A handwritten capital 'A' is present near the lower-middle of the page, above another large redacted area. The overall impression is that of a typed document with significant portions obscured for security reasons during its declassification.